I believe that Richard Hatch had a similar argument about Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica, right up until the moment he watched the show.
The past is not sacred.
I think your opinion smacks at best of fanboyism, at worst, blind idolatry. There isn't *one* right way to handle an IP, like you suggest. Involving the creators isn't the *only* way this venture will become successful. All that people care about is whether or not Jeff Campbell can deliver a good script. You can't argue with results.
I'm in agreement with this line of reasoning. Reboot is the creation of a specific group of interacting creative individuals which delivered a truly original television animation series and in my humble opinion has never been toped. It simply captured the imagination of a more mature audience than the networks realized. The writing was just that good, fresh and fun and funny.
I hope Rainmaker will do justice to those guy and bring them in.
If not... well it may still be good, but it wont be "Reboot!"
We need said results, too, in order to properly judge...
But I agree that this blog, Naruto, is a bit too.... dare I say it... ambitious (?) to properly expose what you're trying to convey. We only read incredibly detailed observations of the previous work done on ReBoot and what you feel should be done with the material.
It's important to note that despite what most people think, a show's creators don't have complete control over what gets broadcast. If the intellectual property gets bought by another outfit, we have to look at it in terms of what can be done, what needs to be done and what might turns it around.
Heck, I wouldn't have made some of the choices the guys made for Star Trek, but hey, some fans liked it. If it worked, who am I to judge?
Finally, I have to say this: people deeply involved in canon fandom should not be allowed near writers. It's exhausting, it's troublesome, and it's just not conducive to good work.
First, I'd like to begin this by saying that I originally only joined this site because of the ReBoot thing, I used to watch it on Saturday mornings, I own the two movies on DVD, and I have favorited a website (actually from on the Z2H members) that provides links for all the episodes.
I think in your blog post you are coming at this completely the wrong the way. Would I like it if they got the original creators on board for the project? Yes, I'd love to see them come back from the movie. However, that is not really the most important thing to me. I'm fine with giving Jeff a chance at the movies, if writing for the comic is done well. I like a lot of the places he has told us he wants to take the characters, and I think he has an interesting story to tell.
I realize that the original creators didn't get a chance to rap up "the hunt" and while I was really disappointed that ReBoot ended on a cliff hanger, I think that, considering the movies came out before I was in high school and I'm now in college, the time for that passed and I'm ready to get on with some new ReBoot stories. All I'd really like is maybe a broad and short recap of what happened.
Personally, I can't see actually going back to where the last series left off. That's just asking to make sure new audience members can't follow what's going on, which will probably just lead to little popularity ultimately ending the next two movies being canceled. I want new ReBoot with a similar feel to the older ones, but they don't have to be exactly the same. That's all that it will take to make me happy...and some new ReBoot toys. I only have some of the originals that look crappy, so I wouldn't mind some new ones. (Yes I'm 20, why do you ask?)
As for canon, I'm not going to take the comic as canon for now. Only because it's been made clear that the new movies/possible series may have nothing to do with it. However, if they do then I will consider it canon. And as long as it's good and same the same ReBoot feel, I will be happy. I've wait for years to get for ReBoot and when it finally came I got a cliff hanger ending. At this point I'm overjoyed that someone has realized the brilliance of the property and am happy that it's going to be picked up with people that seem like they'll take good care of it.
In a way, you're making an argument that has similar faults to Naruto's (albeit one that's less emotionally-charged, more to the point, and something I'm more, though not entirely, inclined to agree with.) You make some pretty sweeping statements of opinion as though they're fact. For instance:
'The past is not sacred.'
In actual practice, I think this is true, in the sense that those who cling to the past revise it to suit their philosophical stances. That said, there are an awful lot of people in the world who cling to what they sincerely believe to be an accurate version of the past and insist that it is sacred. The big one around these parts involves some carpenter getting nailed to a cross 2,000 years ago.
'All that people care about is whether or not Jeff Campbell can deliver a good script.'
Well, no. In an ideal world, that might be true, but in an ideal world (for someone like Naruto, anyway) Reboot never would've gone off the air to begin with. Some people are also going to care about the project's artwork. The majority of people probably aren't going to care at all, not because of the project's quality or lack of same, but because they'll never be exposed to it (as I expect the majority of people were never exposed to the cartoon.)
'You can't argue with results.'
Sure you can, simply by stating that the ends don't justify the means. That may or may not be true, depending on your position on a given topic, but there are very few situations in which it can't be argued.
Now, while I admire Naruto's obvious passion for Reboot and his,her desire to do what he/she thinks is right by the creators s/he perceives as being responsible for the series' 'success', hisher post is presumptuous almost to the point of offensive. But even after eliminating the numerous assumptions, one of his two basic points is, I think, one worth examining.
Should the creators/developers of an intellectual property have a say in future iterations of the property? Contractually and legally, the answer in this case is almost certainly no. Morally, it's--at least potentially--a different story. It would be interesting to know whether the creators cited by Naruto were approached and asked for input; if they were, whether they gave that input; and, most critically, if they were asked and didn't give that input, why they elected not to.
At this point his/her second basic point isn't really worth discussing, because that discussion can, at best, yield no tangible results and, at worst, create frustration all around. "Doing Reboot right" from an aesthetic point of view is, and will always be, a subjective matter. But it's kind of pointless to argue about it until there's at least a finished work to discuss.
Ambitious...yeah, I was basically on a rant, there. I know this is a lengthy one, but I felt I needed to get that off my chest. I need to know that I at at least was able to give my whole song and dance here, and have it heard by whoever is willing to read it.
I agree that evolution of a series is often the key to it's success, and that different people can bring different things to the table, perhaps bettering it. However, I stand by the fact that Gavin and Ian are not necessarily out of steam yet; there is really no reason to replace them at the moment.
Furthermore, I'm am still quite baffled in Rainmaker's reasoning for utterly ignoring the elephant in the room. Until a decent explanation is given for this disregard, I am going to be continuously baffled. The fact that it has been done so...naturally, like it was just sort of a given that we all ignore those silly men that feel THEY are entitled to a series...you know,that they brought up from humble beginnings, all the way to it's complete and utter success.
Honestly, I find it foolish that we seem to be giving into this so readily. Jeez, don't throw in the towel right off the bat. Admitting to defeat and just laying passively out of the way is only going to produce a trilogy made by any old writer. It's important to realize that I'm not bringing their competence to question here, I'm bringing their stakes in the show and what they can do with the show to question. (This sounds like getting ahead of myself, I know. I have not heard any pitches for the movies, obviously, but this is just how I can't help but feel right now.)
I agree with you, there are always cases where new writers at the helm are a good thing, there is no doubt about that, but this is not the case, not yet. As I've said, wonderful things could have been plan for season 4, whatever conclusion is reached for it, it won't be what it was meant to be.
Oh yeah, I'm sorry that myself and my fearful "canon fandom" has to be invading this writers' sanctuary, but this is pretty much the only site where I might be heard by anyone calling the shots. I've sent an email to Rainmaker...I don't think they read it, not with it being buried in the black hole that is their inbox...
Foley-
Emotionally charged...haha, I like that. But seriously, presumptuous to the point of offensive? I don't mean to offend you with the words that come out of my mouth,(yes, I speak aloud each word I type) but I feel when I make my opinion on this type of matter, I kind of need to be on the extreme. This is not a grey area, I feel strongly about this,(as I'm sure you've realized) and I am going to state it in a clear fashion, the way I see is appropriate. Perhaps this is why I come off so emotionally driven, but don't worry. I assure you that I am not shedding tears over this.
Hmm, you found my blog hard to follow, not straight to the point eh? Well it IS a blog, I'm writing down my musings in a not-too-particular way. I write news editorials, I know how to convey thoughts in a more concise manner; I just didn't make much of an effort for a blog. I do admit it's a mouth-full, and hard to follow. Look for the key-points, I guess.
That's just my opinion, though. If you don't care either way, then I guess you're in for a treat. ReBoot is coming back, and you should be excited about it.
Also, just a quick blurb-I think the continuation of the old show's storyline WOULD transfer over to today's audience well. First off, pretty much everyone that would watch it, would be ReBoot fans. Besides, maybe there could be some kind of initiative to recap the series...dunno.
Anyways, I thank you for your playing devil's advocate...just try to see where I'm coming from, eh?
I think you're missing a point of bringing ReBoot back if you think that 'everyone that would watch, would be ReBoot fans'. Because although I am a HUGE fan of the show, I feel I need to point this out: it was canceled, three times. First it went to a different network because it was canceled, then it was just over, then they, as you said, were going to do more but there just wasn't an interest so they shortened it. They're not looking to get all the old ReBoot fans back together for a party, they're looking to get a lot new fans too. Clearly the ratings the show was receiving were not enough to keep it. I mean when it switched channels it only stayed for one season before ending. Then when it was brought back they shortened it, and if it had been popular enough they would have ordered an ending.
I'm by no means saying that's because ReBoot is bad, as I've said I'm a fan. But if it comes back I don't want them to do a movie that's going to get shot down right away because they wanted to end the hunt and everyone new that watched it didn't understand what's happening.
Also, why are you saying that everyone feels we should just ignore the creators of the show? I was unaware that any of them had announced that they would like to work on it and were ignored. And if the writing isn't good enough or it just isn't ReBoot then don't watch. That's what I'm going to do. I'll see how the first one is and if it sucks I'm gonna ignore it and not buy the DVD like I did for the first two movies. As fans we vote with our dollars, rarely is there even a place like this for most properties where you can do much else. If you feel that they should have brought back the creators or made more of an effort don't read the comic, watch the movie, buy anything they put out. Honestly, your strongest power is that they want you to spend money on it but you don't have to.
Yes, and I don't plan on buying the movies if they turn out to be something I'm not interested in. Just because I'm a ReBoot fan, it doesn't mean I'm obligated to buy everything ReBoot-related...(And you know this,)
My statement was a hyperbole of sorts. "Everyone ignoring the creators" is a combined effort of Rainmaker doing so, and the fans not questioning them. Again, who knows if there WAS communication between Rainmaker and the creators? I'm just going by what is known to the public...
Oh, and Gavin Blair, being interviewed during the recent Toronto Fan-expo, expressed great enthusiasm in the shows return. Besides, even if they never officially contacted Rainmaker, it is my opinion that there should have been responsibility on Rainmaker's part to let them know whats going on. Unless, of course they don't wish to include these guys in the production at all, and are looking for a different approach to ReBoot altogether, which seems to be the case.
Well, maybe it IS too late to go back to what ReBoot was. Rainmaker is looking for a profit here, and I have to agree that they may be lacking an audience for something that is 47 episodes into a story...then again, season 4 came out four years after ReBoot's "conclusion"...I wonder; is seven years too long to reopen the story?
Oh, and Ale, this is all speculation, in case you haven't noticed. What, we can't talk of things to come, things that we have a stake in, even if little information is known about it? That hasn't stopped people in the past. The future's where it's at.
Quote of the day: I believe that Richard Hatch had a similar argument about Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica, right up until the moment he watched the show. - Lord Maim
But even better, consider the Star Wars prequels. They actually brought back the original director and creator but the prequels weren't nearly as good as the original trilogy.
True, Reboot could suffer without the original creators. However, it could also turn out better. I think it's too early at this point to say "yay" or "nay" as regards this choice. Sure it might benefit if they are able to bring back some of the original creators... but even if they aren't, don't throw in the towel just yet.
The simple fact of the matter is this. A great story, with great characters, set in a great universe, will be great no matter who rights it. Being that the latter two are already in place, now all that has to be done is to write a great story. That's what will decide the fake of this Reboot reboot.
Lord Maim commented 3 years ago
0
I believe that Richard Hatch had a similar argument about Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica, right up until the moment he watched the show.
The past is not sacred.
I think your opinion smacks at best of fanboyism, at worst, blind idolatry. There isn't *one* right way to handle an IP, like you suggest. Involving the creators isn't the *only* way this venture will become successful. All that people care about is whether or not Jeff Campbell can deliver a good script. You can't argue with results.
Replies (1)
dedstwo commented 2 years ago
0
I'm in agreement with this line of reasoning. Reboot is the creation of a specific group of interacting creative individuals which delivered a truly original television animation series and in my humble opinion has never been toped. It simply captured the imagination of a more mature audience than the networks realized. The writing was just that good, fresh and fun and funny.
I hope Rainmaker will do justice to those guy and bring them in.
If not... well it may still be good, but it wont be "Reboot!"
Fetternity commented 3 years ago
0
We need said results, too, in order to properly judge...
But I agree that this blog, Naruto, is a bit too.... dare I say it... ambitious (?) to properly expose what you're trying to convey. We only read incredibly detailed observations of the previous work done on ReBoot and what you feel should be done with the material.
It's important to note that despite what most people think, a show's creators don't have complete control over what gets broadcast. If the intellectual property gets bought by another outfit, we have to look at it in terms of what can be done, what needs to be done and what might turns it around.
Heck, I wouldn't have made some of the choices the guys made for Star Trek, but hey, some fans liked it. If it worked, who am I to judge?
Finally, I have to say this: people deeply involved in canon fandom should not be allowed near writers. It's exhausting, it's troublesome, and it's just not conducive to good work.
Asclepius commented 3 years ago
0
First, I'd like to begin this by saying that I originally only joined this site because of the ReBoot thing, I used to watch it on Saturday mornings, I own the two movies on DVD, and I have favorited a website (actually from on the Z2H members) that provides links for all the episodes.
I think in your blog post you are coming at this completely the wrong the way. Would I like it if they got the original creators on board for the project? Yes, I'd love to see them come back from the movie. However, that is not really the most important thing to me. I'm fine with giving Jeff a chance at the movies, if writing for the comic is done well. I like a lot of the places he has told us he wants to take the characters, and I think he has an interesting story to tell.
I realize that the original creators didn't get a chance to rap up "the hunt" and while I was really disappointed that ReBoot ended on a cliff hanger, I think that, considering the movies came out before I was in high school and I'm now in college, the time for that passed and I'm ready to get on with some new ReBoot stories. All I'd really like is maybe a broad and short recap of what happened.
Personally, I can't see actually going back to where the last series left off. That's just asking to make sure new audience members can't follow what's going on, which will probably just lead to little popularity ultimately ending the next two movies being canceled. I want new ReBoot with a similar feel to the older ones, but they don't have to be exactly the same. That's all that it will take to make me happy...and some new ReBoot toys. I only have some of the originals that look crappy, so I wouldn't mind some new ones. (Yes I'm 20, why do you ask?)
As for canon, I'm not going to take the comic as canon for now. Only because it's been made clear that the new movies/possible series may have nothing to do with it. However, if they do then I will consider it canon. And as long as it's good and same the same ReBoot feel, I will be happy. I've wait for years to get for ReBoot and when it finally came I got a cliff hanger ending. At this point I'm overjoyed that someone has realized the brilliance of the property and am happy that it's going to be picked up with people that seem like they'll take good care of it.
Andrew Fol... commented 3 years ago
0
Maim--
In a way, you're making an argument that has similar faults to Naruto's (albeit one that's less emotionally-charged, more to the point, and something I'm more, though not entirely, inclined to agree with.) You make some pretty sweeping statements of opinion as though they're fact. For instance:
'The past is not sacred.'
In actual practice, I think this is true, in the sense that those who cling to the past revise it to suit their philosophical stances. That said, there are an awful lot of people in the world who cling to what they sincerely believe to be an accurate version of the past and insist that it is sacred. The big one around these parts involves some carpenter getting nailed to a cross 2,000 years ago.
'All that people care about is whether or not Jeff Campbell can deliver a good script.'
Well, no. In an ideal world, that might be true, but in an ideal world (for someone like Naruto, anyway) Reboot never would've gone off the air to begin with. Some people are also going to care about the project's artwork. The majority of people probably aren't going to care at all, not because of the project's quality or lack of same, but because they'll never be exposed to it (as I expect the majority of people were never exposed to the cartoon.)
'You can't argue with results.'
Sure you can, simply by stating that the ends don't justify the means. That may or may not be true, depending on your position on a given topic, but there are very few situations in which it can't be argued.
Now, while I admire Naruto's obvious passion for Reboot and his,her desire to do what he/she thinks is right by the creators s/he perceives as being responsible for the series' 'success', hisher post is presumptuous almost to the point of offensive. But even after eliminating the numerous assumptions, one of his two basic points is, I think, one worth examining.
Should the creators/developers of an intellectual property have a say in future iterations of the property? Contractually and legally, the answer in this case is almost certainly no. Morally, it's--at least potentially--a different story. It would be interesting to know whether the creators cited by Naruto were approached and asked for input; if they were, whether they gave that input; and, most critically, if they were asked and didn't give that input, why they elected not to.
At this point his/her second basic point isn't really worth discussing, because that discussion can, at best, yield no tangible results and, at worst, create frustration all around. "Doing Reboot right" from an aesthetic point of view is, and will always be, a subjective matter. But it's kind of pointless to argue about it until there's at least a finished work to discuss.
Foley
Naruto commented 3 years ago
0
Ambitious...yeah, I was basically on a rant, there. I know this is a lengthy one, but I felt I needed to get that off my chest. I need to know that I at at least was able to give my whole song and dance here, and have it heard by whoever is willing to read it.
I agree that evolution of a series is often the key to it's success, and that different people can bring different things to the table, perhaps bettering it. However, I stand by the fact that Gavin and Ian are not necessarily out of steam yet; there is really no reason to replace them at the moment.
Furthermore, I'm am still quite baffled in Rainmaker's reasoning for utterly ignoring the elephant in the room. Until a decent explanation is given for this disregard, I am going to be continuously baffled. The fact that it has been done so...naturally, like it was just sort of a given that we all ignore those silly men that feel THEY are entitled to a series...you know,that they brought up from humble beginnings, all the way to it's complete and utter success.
Honestly, I find it foolish that we seem to be giving into this so readily. Jeez, don't throw in the towel right off the bat. Admitting to defeat and just laying passively out of the way is only going to produce a trilogy made by any old writer. It's important to realize that I'm not bringing their competence to question here, I'm bringing their stakes in the show and what they can do with the show to question. (This sounds like getting ahead of myself, I know. I have not heard any pitches for the movies, obviously, but this is just how I can't help but feel right now.)
I agree with you, there are always cases where new writers at the helm are a good thing, there is no doubt about that, but this is not the case, not yet. As I've said, wonderful things could have been plan for season 4, whatever conclusion is reached for it, it won't be what it was meant to be.
Oh yeah, I'm sorry that myself and my fearful "canon fandom" has to be invading this writers' sanctuary, but this is pretty much the only site where I might be heard by anyone calling the shots. I've sent an email to Rainmaker...I don't think they read it, not with it being buried in the black hole that is their inbox...
Foley-
Emotionally charged...haha, I like that. But seriously, presumptuous to the point of offensive? I don't mean to offend you with the words that come out of my mouth,(yes, I speak aloud each word I type) but I feel when I make my opinion on this type of matter, I kind of need to be on the extreme. This is not a grey area, I feel strongly about this,(as I'm sure you've realized) and I am going to state it in a clear fashion, the way I see is appropriate. Perhaps this is why I come off so emotionally driven, but don't worry. I assure you that I am not shedding tears over this.
Hmm, you found my blog hard to follow, not straight to the point eh? Well it IS a blog, I'm writing down my musings in a not-too-particular way. I write news editorials, I know how to convey thoughts in a more concise manner; I just didn't make much of an effort for a blog. I do admit it's a mouth-full, and hard to follow. Look for the key-points, I guess.
That's just my opinion, though. If you don't care either way, then I guess you're in for a treat. ReBoot is coming back, and you should be excited about it.
Also, just a quick blurb-I think the continuation of the old show's storyline WOULD transfer over to today's audience well. First off, pretty much everyone that would watch it, would be ReBoot fans. Besides, maybe there could be some kind of initiative to recap the series...dunno.
Anyways, I thank you for your playing devil's advocate...just try to see where I'm coming from, eh?
BTW...I'm male
Asclepius commented 3 years ago
0
I think you're missing a point of bringing ReBoot back if you think that 'everyone that would watch, would be ReBoot fans'. Because although I am a HUGE fan of the show, I feel I need to point this out: it was canceled, three times. First it went to a different network because it was canceled, then it was just over, then they, as you said, were going to do more but there just wasn't an interest so they shortened it. They're not looking to get all the old ReBoot fans back together for a party, they're looking to get a lot new fans too. Clearly the ratings the show was receiving were not enough to keep it. I mean when it switched channels it only stayed for one season before ending. Then when it was brought back they shortened it, and if it had been popular enough they would have ordered an ending.
I'm by no means saying that's because ReBoot is bad, as I've said I'm a fan. But if it comes back I don't want them to do a movie that's going to get shot down right away because they wanted to end the hunt and everyone new that watched it didn't understand what's happening.
Also, why are you saying that everyone feels we should just ignore the creators of the show? I was unaware that any of them had announced that they would like to work on it and were ignored. And if the writing isn't good enough or it just isn't ReBoot then don't watch. That's what I'm going to do. I'll see how the first one is and if it sucks I'm gonna ignore it and not buy the DVD like I did for the first two movies. As fans we vote with our dollars, rarely is there even a place like this for most properties where you can do much else. If you feel that they should have brought back the creators or made more of an effort don't read the comic, watch the movie, buy anything they put out. Honestly, your strongest power is that they want you to spend money on it but you don't have to.
Ale Arag commented 3 years ago
0
This is absolutely premature. wait to read the comic and then... talk
Ale
Naruto commented 3 years ago
0
Yes, and I don't plan on buying the movies if they turn out to be something I'm not interested in. Just because I'm a ReBoot fan, it doesn't mean I'm obligated to buy everything ReBoot-related...(And you know this,)
My statement was a hyperbole of sorts. "Everyone ignoring the creators" is a combined effort of Rainmaker doing so, and the fans not questioning them. Again, who knows if there WAS communication between Rainmaker and the creators? I'm just going by what is known to the public...
Oh, and Gavin Blair, being interviewed during the recent Toronto Fan-expo, expressed great enthusiasm in the shows return. Besides, even if they never officially contacted Rainmaker, it is my opinion that there should have been responsibility on Rainmaker's part to let them know whats going on. Unless, of course they don't wish to include these guys in the production at all, and are looking for a different approach to ReBoot altogether, which seems to be the case.
Well, maybe it IS too late to go back to what ReBoot was. Rainmaker is looking for a profit here, and I have to agree that they may be lacking an audience for something that is 47 episodes into a story...then again, season 4 came out four years after ReBoot's "conclusion"...I wonder; is seven years too long to reopen the story?
Oh, and Ale, this is all speculation, in case you haven't noticed. What, we can't talk of things to come, things that we have a stake in, even if little information is known about it? That hasn't stopped people in the past. The future's where it's at.
Titan.inc commented 3 years ago
0
Quote of the day: I believe that Richard Hatch had a similar argument about Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica, right up until the moment he watched the show. - Lord Maim
But even better, consider the Star Wars prequels. They actually brought back the original director and creator but the prequels weren't nearly as good as the original trilogy.
True, Reboot could suffer without the original creators. However, it could also turn out better. I think it's too early at this point to say "yay" or "nay" as regards this choice. Sure it might benefit if they are able to bring back some of the original creators... but even if they aren't, don't throw in the towel just yet.
The simple fact of the matter is this. A great story, with great characters, set in a great universe, will be great no matter who rights it. Being that the latter two are already in place, now all that has to be done is to write a great story. That's what will decide the fake of this Reboot reboot.
Titan.inc commented 3 years ago
0
*fate of this Reboot reboot. (GAH! We REALLY need to be able to edit our posts!)